With Ballerina now available to watch at home, I recently sat down with director Len Wiseman (Underworld; Live Free or Die Hard; Total Recall) to talk about directing the first spin-off set in the World of John Wick.
He breaks down crafting Eve's character with his Academy Award-nominated star Ana de Armas (Knives Out; No Time to Die; Ghosted) and designing extreme action sequences that feel clever and realistic—especially when your hero is outnumbered and outmuscled—and why her vulnerability was an asset.
He also took me inside the film’s fire-and-ice motif, crafting a flamethrower-versus-flamethrower duel that feels like a rage-fueled fever dream, and weaving John Wick into the story with actual purpose.
Watch our full chat below and/or keep scrolling to read the full transcription. Plus, remember to subscribe to our YouTube channel for more exclusive content!
ROHAN: You’re stepping into a franchise known for its world-class action. What did you want to do differently with Ballerina that separates it from the mainline John Wick films as well as your own previous films?
LEN: There was a difference in terms of what the action is. It's much more of a fight based action movie than, say, something like, you know, Die Hard or other projects, but it was also something that I just have a passion for, that I've been wanting to do. And, in terms of what is, I guess, what is different, I mean there's a lot that's different, but just starting with what you're saying, in terms of the action of it, it was really important to me that one, this was not a female John Wick movie, and that Ana’s character, Eve, was her own fully fleshed out character with her own style, her own energy, and one of the things that worked into the action side of that is that her action, I developed, that it's much more survival based than it is attack based. And what that means is that you get a sense that she's going up against these six foot male assassins, sometimes fifteen, twenty at a time, and we also want to play the realism of that, and the realism of that is being very clever, very creative, and what she needs to do to sort of manipulate the action sequence a little bit just so she can survive it. Rather than just win it, she's just trying to survive through it, and that became an energy that is very different, and so she has to be clever. Everything in the room she has to think of, is there a possibility of this being a weapon and it really created a language of her type of fighting style.
ROHAN: Like you said, many of the foes Eve has to face are much larger than her, which is easier said than done. What was it like to work with her on crafting this character and making her someone that's very easy to root for?
LEN: We talked about many things. One thing, just to in a sense of being open about, when you say that she's going up against a lot of what are, you know, primarily, these very skilled and male assassins, which are just bigger than her, is that she's going to get her ass kicked, like it's just going to happen. But it'll be a, you know, like I said, she'll have to be clever of how to work through that, and I grew up on films where the vulnerability of the action star, of the Harrison Fords and, you know, Martin Riggs and Lethal Weapon, and they just get thrashed, and you like the reality of how much kind of pain that they're in. And, you know, there's not a lot of, like posing and kind of even confidence of, I'm going to do a really badass sequence after doing this amazing sequence, it's really just showing how tired they are, how much they're just, you know, impressed and shocked that they're even still alive. And I think that, at least for me, speaking for me, as an audience member, I just attached to those kind of characters more.
ROHAN: The flamethrower sequence is wild. What sparked that idea, and how did you build it into something we haven’t seen before?
LEN: I mean, that all came from, one, early on we had this idea that this movie is like fire and ice and and - just coming from an emotional point of the fire, showing her rage. So, emotionally, the visuals of that was one of the starting points, and then, you know, with a lot of action, I'm always striving for what hasn't been seen, and even if it's a weapon that we've seen in other films, how do we utilize it in a way that it's just never been done before? So that became when the idea of a flame thrower, but a flame thrower against another flame thrower, and just having essentially a gun battle, but with flame throwers, has never been seen before. So, that starts it and it all kind of builds on that, and then, we go over it with the stunt team and build together a good file of, you know, thirty different moves that would be interesting, and then it's really picking what are the best of, and that's really how it works. We know, okay, here's the clever idea: is a flame thrower against flame thrower essentially a dual gunfight, and let's just start developing what are some of the funnest, most brutal moves, and then, we'll go down and pick the best of.
ROHAN: You finally get to work with Keanu Reeves in this film, what was it like working with him and what were the conversations like to have him fit seamlessy into the timeline of Ballerina?
LEN: Yeah, I gotta say, man, it was a wonderful process. I loved working with the guy. And Keanu was not a part of the original, original script that I had gotten, and I wanted him to be a part of it, but I wanted him to be a part of it in a way that wasn't a cameo. It didn't seem like a cash grab. It didn't seem like okay, he's just gonna show up and do a kind of stamp cameo. It was exactly what I didn't want. And, so I worked on a script a bit to incorporate more of him. Honestly, the timeline wasn't the same. The very, very original script, and that Keanu and I worked on together and got to where the timeline is of how it runs parallel with Parabellum. And so, he was very involved. He's very involved in also wanting to be very true to what his journey was in the films so far, and so, once we got together, and locked in the timeline, and found what purpose he would serve in our story. And for me, Keanu is, he’s really there for the full circle of her story about choice, choice and consequence, you know, when he sees her in the opening, and then what you'll find later down the road that it felt really good. I was really happy that it was - that was it. I just wanted to be that, with all its fun and seeing John Wick, as a fan, absolutely, I want to see that, but as a storyteller, I wanted to really have its weight and have a purpose.
ROHAN: The John Wick and Eve ever collide for real—what story were you and Keanu telling with that fight?
LEN: So, yeah, I mean, really, in one of the first conversations we had, Keanu said, well, here's the thing, if John Wick goes up against Eve, if he's sent to kill Eve, he's going to kill Eve, you know, and it was just a fun car conversation. I said, I absolutely agree with that. Does he want to kill Eve? That’s the big question. Does he feel that she deserves to die? And so, I really got into his head about the difference between Wick and John, in his mind, and so, that really plays a part in terms of what he's gone through, what he sees in her story, what he understands. And, you know, he's given directive. He's given this kind of, you know, these rules, and it's kind of forced out of many things in his life, and favors and situations, he is forced to go in and deal with the problem, but like we've seen from John Wick, he finds his way to, you know, get around some of the shackles and things. And for the fight itself, I really wanted to make it more of a mentor trying to really get through to his student in a way, like a lion and a cub, with a cub that just sort of won't let go. And so the fight for me was, I need to kind of beat her down into a place where hopefully she will listen to my advice is sort of the tone of the fight.
ROHAN: What was the most technically challenging action sequence to shoot in Ballerina—and what made it so difficult?
LEN: I mean, honestly, all the sequences were challenging. The sequences are - and I think they’re meant to be challenging. It's funny, because I am asked a lot, what were the most challenging scenes to shoot? They're all challenging. And I think if they weren't, they just wouldn't be very good. You know, if I were to say, well, you know, a scene that was really easy, was this scene, like, well, it's probably not going to be that exciting then, if it's easy. They were all challenging. The one that was, I'd say specifically more, I guess detail specific oriented was the grenade sequence, because we do have live pyrotechnics going off. It's all a practical sequence, and the shots are longer and not stitched together. So, you know, a lot of trap doors for stunt players to be able to just escape out through one hatch right before the grenade goes off, so that when we reveal like a door, she smas hed the guy up against the door, he has a half a second to get through that trap in the set before that charge goes off, so that when she pulls the door back around, he's now gone. So, a lot of that is just in the timing was tricky, but also really fun. Halstead, itself, it was a tricky location. We couldn't bring a lot of equipment there. We couldn't bring lighting trucks and everything there, so we just carpet bombed that place with cameras for two days and shot until the light went down. It felt like a student film with just a bit more money and support, but we didn't have a lot of equipment.
The next chapter from the World of John Wick follows Eve Macarro (Ana de Armas), who is beginning her training in the assassin traditions of the Ruska Roma. Eve seeks revenge for her father’s death, and finds herself crossing paths with John Wick himself (Keanu Reeves).